240?

[Canaduh]

Originally Posted by Jinx I think your wallet will be much happier if you just turbo the KA.

Err, friend has a 240, and is thinking of turboing the KA, but is trying to get talked out of it, as it is the other way around. The SR apparently is cheaper, so hes told by people at www.zeroyon.com/forums But, a mojority of them live in Japan, but say it should still be cheaper. But wht do i know :\

[masticatingcow]

Originally Posted by Canaduh Originally Posted by Jinx I think your wallet will be much happier if you just turbo the KA. Err, friend has a 240, and is thinking of turboing the KA, but is trying to get talked out of it, as it is the other way around. The SR apparently is cheaper, so hes told by people at www.zeroyon.com/forums But, a mojority of them live in Japan, but say it should still be cheaper. But wht do i know :\

OMG this discussion has gone on for SO LONG on Nissan forums.

People everywhere seem to think that an SR20DET will crank out insane RWHP numbers right off the crate. Not true. Any self-respecting tuner will AT LEAST replace the rings, gaskets, etc. etc. Before long, all that is left of the "SR swap" is the block. The turbo gets swapped most of the time, as does the SMIC, stock piping, lines, etc. etc. So rather than pay a few thousand dollars for "everything you need," you've paid a few thousand dollars for "everything you've replaced" and paid, you guessed it, a few thousand more for all those new parts.

Now, a complete KA24DE (with tranny, harness, ECU) shouldn't cost more than $500. You can get the long block for as little as $150 sometimes. If you want to rebuild the motor (as you should) you only need to replace the OEM pistons with lower CR ones. If you REALLY want to rebuild the bottom end, you shouldn't have to use anything more than OEM replacements. Figure that the rebuild and prep for turbo will set you back a little over $1000. Now you build a turbo kit to your specifications, which, depending on what you want, could cost as little as $1400 or as much as $4000. At that point, it's really up to you.

Let's take an extreme example: say you want to fully build whichever engine you go with for maximum HP. This will mean rebuilding from the oilpan up in both cases. The upshot with the KA is that you save over a grand in buying the engine which you can put into performance parts. Remember that a young KA shouldn't cost more than $500, whereas an SR NEVER costs less than $1200.

[Canaduh]

The tiny turbo that everyone swaps out, in the SR20, with a front mounted-intercooler, is capable of producing similar if not more power then the KA ringlands can even take. So a stock SR20 with a front mount can still make as much power as a turboed KA with a stock bottom end. This is saying that the boost on the SR is tuned around 14Psi max. Dont expect the turbo to last though at 14psi :P . But still with moderate boost settings,it makes as much power as a turbo KA with stock bottom end.

[masticatingcow]

Originally Posted by Canaduh The tiny turbo that everyone swaps out, in the SR20, with a front mounted-intercooler, is capable of producing similar if not more power then the KA ringlands can even take. So a stock SR20 with a front mount can still make as much power as a turboed KA with a stock bottom end. This is saying that the boost on the SR is tuned around 14Psi max. Dont expect the turbo to last though at 14psi :P . But still with moderate boost settings,it makes as much power as a turbo KA with stock bottom end.

Where are you getting this information? OEM internals have been shown to hold around 300rwhp in the KA. I have NEVER heard of anyone having problems with the ringlands. A stock SR20DET cannot make the same power a "stock" KA24DET can. Both have forged internals (proven) and both hold over 300whp on stock internals (save for the 9.5:1 CR pistons in the KA, which are almost always swapped for 8.8:1 or 8.5:1 aftermarket ones...)

And assuming that what you're saying is true... that an SR makes the same power that a KA-T does under "moderate boost settings," why would anyone get an SR? Parts are MUCH more expensive, and in many areas in the country, smogging an SR is a hassle. If you're aiming for "moderate boost" than why boost an engine that will cost thousands to fix if blown over one that will cost you less than an aftermarket clutch?

A couple other points...

1. The SR20DET is a square engine. This means bore = stroke. The KA is an over-stroked engine, which means that bore < stroke. This means that at any given RPM, the KA has a higher piston speed. Higher piston speed means faster exhaust, which means faster spool. This means KA owners can take advantage of larger turbos without worrying so much about turbo lag.

2. The SR20DET is a 2.0L engine. The KA24DE is a 2.4L engine, thanks to it's long stroke. The increase in displacement equates to a greater exhaust volume, which also contributes to faster turbo spool. Also, while this may seem redundant, in a piston engine, the greater the displacement, the greater the torque. Everyone knows that horsepower is just an arbitrary measurement of power derived from torque. You do the math.

[Canaduh]

I never once compared a ka and sr at the same boost levels. I simply compared engine internals. An sr has been shown to hold power upwards of 500hp on stock internals. A ka's pistons are garbage above 300.

Agreed the price of repair is more expensive on the sr.

The price of an sr20 with front mount here (Canada) would match that of a moderate boost ka project, thus both making about the same amount of power, with the ka comming out slightly ahead but with reliability issues. This is saying that the turbo project is paid for but the internals have not been touched yet. (this one is a little broad considering there are soo many possible combinations. This was writin with a t3/t4 setup in mind, about $3000)

Agreed the stroke on the ka helps with spooling but it also means that u can't rev it worth shit, thats where the ringlands become a problem. With the increased piston speed means increased strain and wear.

My main concern is that if I turbo a non turbo engine I might come out with a wobbly power curve (tunning facilities are not abundant here) and reliability becomes and issue when its a daily driver. I was all for the ka project, hell i still have a spare ka and am still considering it. But for a daily drivin car and a moderate budget i still see the sr as the best bang for the buck to reach that elusive 300hp mark (or close there of). *remember high milage daily driver*

I should probably mention prices since i keep mentioning them. The sr ive found for around 1500 US. (tranny, motor, wiring harness, etc) and front mount completely installed for about 1000 can. So about 3000 can.

masticatingcow plz prove me wrong on any and all points because im still doing research and i am still at cross roads on which route to go.

p.s. this is canaduh's friends and this is probably the completely wrong forum to be talking about this in. Sorry

[Shaggy]

Well if this is canaduh's friends, then sign up as a new user and post away. Great post by the way!!

[Canaduh]

lol, good god brennan, Just sign up and fight with your account, im too lazy to keep signing in for you? MWHAHAHA *talks to you on msn*

[masticatingcow]

A ka's pistons are garbage above 300.
Why are you talking about the KA's pistons? I already said anyone worth their salt will swap them for 8.5:1 forged pieces.

Agreed the price of repair is more expensive on the sr.
Good.

The price of an sr20 with front mount here (Canada) would match that of a moderate boost ka project, thus both making about the same amount of power, with the ka comming out slightly ahead but with reliability issues. This is saying that the turbo project is paid for but the internals have not been touched yet. (this one is a little broad considering there are soo many possible combinations. This was writin with a t3/t4 setup in mind, about $3000)
I ask again, where are you getting this information? How long have you owned your 240sx? Do you even own a 240sx? Now that I think about it, did you even read my previous post? Please try again.

Agreed the stroke on the ka helps with spooling but it also means that u can't rev it worth shit, thats where the ringlands become a problem. With the increased piston speed means increased strain and wear.
You must be joking. I assume that you will also rip on the Viper for redlining at all of 6000 RPM. After all, you can't rev it worth shit, and for the last time, tell me where you're getting this ringlands information. I'm calling it BS until I see otherwise.

My main concern is that if I turbo a non turbo engine I might come out with a wobbly power curve (tunning facilities are not abundant here) and reliability becomes and issue when its a daily driver. I was all for the ka project, hell i still have a spare ka and am still considering it. But for a daily drivin car and a moderate budget i still see the sr as the best bang for the buck to reach that elusive 300hp mark (or close there of). *remember high milage daily driver*
Do you seriously think that the SR is such a godsend that it tunes itself? Even overboosting a stock turbo engine requires careful tuning... it's not like turning up a dial and dumping toulene in the tank. Seriously, if you don't have appropriate tuning facilities and are uncomfortable or unwilling to do it yourself, you shouldn't be talking turbo at all. Get yourself for I-H-E and call it a day.

I should probably mention prices since i keep mentioning them. The sr ive found for around 1500 US. (tranny, motor, wiring harness, etc) and front mount completely installed for about 1000 can. So about 3000 can.
What you do with your money is up to you. But believing whole-heartedly that the only engine that belongs in a 240sx is an SR is just plain ignorant. The way I see it, too many of the SR guys in the S-chassis crowd rip on the KA because they don't want to accept that it is a realistic option.

masticatingcow plz prove me wrong on any and all points because im still doing research and i am still at cross roads on which route to go.
When it comes to cars, no one is ever proven wrong, especially online. The fact of the matter is that if someone has the cash, they can MAKE themselves right, you know what I mean? Anything is possible, it just takes money. If you are really at a crossroads, my advice is to stop listening to your SR-happy buddies and, quite honestly, KA-freaks like me and check out a few NISSAN ONLY forums. The best place to start is NICO (www.nicoclub.com). Good luck and keep me posted with where you go.

[AusTexRex]

This seems much more like a style of driving decision than a HP numbers decision. The SR wins when it comes to higher numbers. I've been doing a little researching and this is a dyno of a stock SR
http://www.conopium.com/cars/dyno1.jpg

The KA WILL spool faster, and could theoretically hit higher boost numbers, BUT we're not talking about normal ranges here. By normal I mean anything less than 25 psi.

The overally effectiveness of the engine is a moot point. The SR handles load better, and is more efficient. When the exact same turbo is stuck onto both engines things start to change a little bit. If you get an SR you shouldn't be using the same turbo as a KA would. Higher CFM is determined by the intake side of the turbo, while spooling speed is determined by the hotside.

If there aren't many SR owners running a twin turbo setup with something around the 11B size then I'm going to disregard the cars entirely. Logically that is how you will make the most effective use of the engine itself.

Price ignored, the SR is a better engine. The KA is apparently cheaper, and quicker to mod but doesn't respond to mods as well.

For Auto X, the KA would be a smarter engine due to spooling speed and a smaller low end torque, for drag the SR wins. A properly modded SR should beat a properly modded KA.

I've seen little evidence of weak ringlands.

[slideways7]

Dropping in a sr or ca motor is the easiest way to get power in a 240 but the KA's are definently not a piece of shit motor and are actually in my opinion alot better then the sr series engines granted there more expensive to buil but i'd rather have a 2.4l then a 2.0l any day and besides that everyone has sr's theres nothing unique about it my brothers 180sx has a single KA and it smokes the hell out of my friends sr all the time drift or drag.so dont just go sr because its the in thing to do think about what motor is the best for your application and then decide.

btw you can see my bro's car at www.geocities.com/drift_inertia

look for the link that says dan