whats your vote?

[damnitsfrancis]

the money the gov gets from taxes pays for a lot. the taxcuts that the rich get they just pocket the money, how can you say it should improve economy when now look whats happening. people who have jobs now work for much less and longer hours, because they do not want to loose thier job, i think, im not sure of the figures again but we work just about 200 more hours than the average european and we still earn less. the war actually is costing the nation way less than the tax cuts too. i remember reading from the bipartisan congressinal budget office that the taxcuts costs the nation 3times more than the war in iraq, and thats including homeland security and rebuilding after sept 11. just to hear that the bush administration probly knew about the possible terrorist attack and let it happen effects me personally since i live in NYC. i knew some families that had thier loved ones die, and i had a friend who was lucky enough to wake up late that awful morning and didnt come into his interview on time, just missing the attack. dont even get me started with the patriot act, its more like the oh if u are anti war and against our ideals u are a terrorist act. i remember durring the war when people who was against the war since day one were hated against just for thier opinion. this doesnt sound like a free nation to me anymore

[Shaggy]

Damn francis...you are writing books here..

[damnitsfrancis]

haha, i read a lot when im bored. u kno riding trains to school, doing work, defeating evil, ect... hahaha

[AusTexRex]

Much of your concerns are good points or things to be worried about, but they have very little to do with Bush himself.
-What people do to people protesting the war is not the fault of the president.
-The dip in the economy was starting at the end of Clinton's 2nd term, right now we have just passed the apex of a bear market, assuming that people maintain confidence in the economic system it will come back up over the next 3 years, whether or not Bush is the next president.
-When it comes to the national economy the president has very little direct control over it. A president can only manipulate taxes and the federal budget. It's sort of like trying to make something float in a different direction by pushing waves at it.
-Had Enron never happened in the first place we wouldn't have started an economic decline. Why Enron happened is a complicated matter including a lot of people in the IRS and if someone wanted to assign presidential blame it would be Clintcn (although he was a decent president by many standards).
-This government let 9/11 happen hasn't ever been proved and I haven't seen enough evidence to believe it myself. AND even if it did happen it had nothing to do with Bush, he hadn't been in office that long, everything that happens in the government isn't the president's fault.
-School systems weren't improved, but literally every single candidate for president over the last 2 decades has said he would improve the educational standards, and noone ever has. Anything a president claims he can do during his term is bogus, he has to write bills and watch them go through congress just the same as anyone else.

On many of your concerns it boils down to congress. How many people in congress benefit from this war? Tons, most of them have stock in oil. Take a look at the public tax records of many members of congress, particularly the senate, they are very.... interesting. Bush paid nearly 50% of his annual income in taxes this last year, Cheney made 2x as much and paid nearly the same amount.

On a side note:
Out of all members in the government Cheney is the one who should be watched and blamed, didn't Haliburton just get exposed for illegal tax practices? Wasn't Cheney an executive of Haliburton before this? Isn't Haliburton related to oil?

[damnitsfrancis]

bush started the war, it was his fault. esp for taking unrealiable intelligence, he he probly knew was true, or he could be lying about the intelligence and justifying the war that saddam has weapons of mass destruction. and with the economy, taxes pay for revinue or however u spell it, with all the taxcuts the governtment will be in bad shape. i need to read up again for more examples but im a bit busy now since school and all. but here are some points i have

-Brought the country into one of the worst recessions in recent years
-Completely alienated all relations to foreign nations
-Invaded a country on false premises
-Invaded and made a regime change in a country, then left, and now the country is falling apart again
-Knew about possible 9/11 terrorist attacks, yet did nothing
-His administration condoned the torture of Iraqi prisoners then when revealed, alienated the soldiers caught carrying out their orders
-Invasion into Iraq killed over 15000 iraqis
-Planned to build NEW nuclear weapons
-His entire information on weapons of mass destruction was from a few exiled Iraqis whose info turned out to be false
-"You're with us, or you're against us" idealization the most retarded thing a world leader has ever said
-Uses falsified propaganda to link Saddam to Al Qaeda
-Quoted during his campaign in 2000 "Our job as a nation is not to go around the world telling people what to do"
-Expresses everlasting gratitude to war veterans, then cuts their funding
-Bush told people at a food bank that we must do some good, then cut funding for the meals on wheels program
Bush closes women's offices in federal agencies and defunds programs
-Bush's tax cuts cut taxes for the rich only
-Bush appoints racially hostile Republicans to key civil rights positions
-Singlehandedly with the Patriot Act condemns all protestors as terrorists
-Weakened HIV prevention programs
-Opposes condoms even to teenagers
-Bush apparently believes he was elected national preacher as well as president (just my opinion :-p)

[AusTexRex]

Originally Posted by damnitsfrancis bush started the war, it was his fault. esp for taking unrealiable intelligence, he he probly knew was true, or he could be lying about the intelligence and justifying the war that saddam has weapons of mass destruction. and with the economy, taxes pay for revinue or however u spell it, with all the taxcuts the governtment will be in bad shape. i need to read up again for more examples but im a bit busy now since school and all. but here are some points i have -Brought the country into one of the worst recessions in recent years -Completely alienated all relations to foreign nations -Invaded a country on false premises -Invaded and made a regime change in a country, then left, and now the country is falling apart again -Knew about possible 9/11 terrorist attacks, yet did nothing -His administration condoned the torture of Iraqi prisoners then when revealed, alienated the soldiers caught carrying out their orders -Invasion into Iraq killed over 15000 iraqis -Planned to build NEW nuclear weapons -His entire information on weapons of mass destruction was from a few exiled Iraqis whose info turned out to be false -"You're with us, or you're against us" idealization the most retarded thing a world leader has ever said -Uses falsified propaganda to link Saddam to Al Qaeda -Quoted during his campaign in 2000 "Our job as a nation is not to go around the world telling people what to do" -Expresses everlasting gratitude to war veterans, then cuts their funding -Bush told people at a food bank that we must do some good, then cut funding for the meals on wheels program Bush closes women's offices in federal agencies and defunds programs -Bush's tax cuts cut taxes for the rich only -Bush appoints racially hostile Republicans to key civil rights positions -Singlehandedly with the Patriot Act condemns all protestors as terrorists -Weakened HIV prevention programs -Opposes condoms even to teenagers -Bush apparently believes he was elected national preacher as well as president (just my opinion :-p)

Bush did not start this war, he certainly was for the war, but he did not start it all by himself. It takes an act of congress to declare war.
WMD's, Biological weapons, nuclear weapons, whatever, doesn't matter Saddam killed thousands. A family friend of ours, a pastor , went to Iraq a few months ago to provide health and other volunteer services. He stayed in a hospital right next to a large parking lot. One the second to last day he was there the military was excavating that parking lot, under the concrete were buses side by side lined up 3 rows deep and 10 buses per row. Inside each bus were civilians packed inside and buried alive. Weapons, whatever, fuck it, the US put Saddam into power we made a mistake, it was the US's job to take him out of power.
Economic recession began due to a number of illegal tax evasions that when exposed were placed upon the government to fill By cutting program funding and cutting taxes Bush allows the people of America to keep more money, which promotes the spending of that extra money. For ever dollar that has been cut, that someone receives and spends the government makes back two. Double taxation, it's how the government was supposed to stay out of debt, but the programs for our well being, and wars have put us into debt.
An economic recession such as this one does not start over night, and it does not start because of one man, or even the president and congress (whom have to approve the president's budget) it is our fault as the people of the United States. When we have the least money is when ecnomically overall we need to spend it. Noone understands that, which is why the great depression happened. I digress, the points you have made again are either acts of congress or are not even the fault of this administration.

[damnitsfrancis]

its congress' fault too, but there was no declaration of war. last time congress actually declared war was WWII. congress only simply let bush take command of the troops as he saw fit.

bush jr is following in his fathers footsteps for taxcuts like his father did and back when bush sr was in office gov surplus was going down. when clintion went into office he reversed every taxcut and economic plan bush sr made and america was makin money. we set a new record and made the most money ever with bill. then when bush jr was elected he copied his fathers ideas and look what happened. if bush jr would had followed bill's plans there was a projected surplus of 11billion in about 10 years. now the projected deficit in less than 10 years is over 11billion, or just about. the millions and billions that the top 20% pay in taxes are most of the money the gov needs for its programs and whatnot. i dont know if i mentioned it earlier but the taxcuts cost the gov more than 3times the money we are using for iraq and thats including rebuilding and homeland security. i 4get how much bush asked for when he wanted to go into iraq and i 4get how much was needed for rebuilding and homeland security but i remember it was a lot, and if the taxcuts cost the gov 3 times more than all those put together that shows how much money is being lost. btw i got the info from bipartisan congressional budget office.

[Hollywood]

what do you mean concervatives are making more money?
we are spending 100s of billion dollars fighting this war, and at the same time the GOP wants more tax cuts. (well it is an election year, these guys will say anything to get elected.) yet at the same time many of americas large businesses and corportations are moviving "off shore" to avoid paying taxes. that is where most of our tax revenue comes from, and the concervatives do not want to stop them.

[AusTexRex]

I mean that due to this war oil companies are banking hard, and we are procuring a lot of business from the middle east. Oil companies make money, spend it, and everyone makes money. Unfortunately we're in the middle of the part where we're giving the oil companies more money than usual and they aren't spending more than usual. Banks and oil companies make this economy work the way it does.

[damnitsfrancis]

well it doesnt seem like its working right. bush is following the same econmical plan his father did and the economy was going down during the bush sr adminitstation, when clinton came into office he reversed everything that bush sr did and the economy went up and prospered like never before seen. when bush jr came into office he followed the same economic plan his father set up and look whats happening again. except this time its even worse off than be4 because now we are in debt